Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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TiddK
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Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

I was advised to try OS 9.0.4 to see if it would resolve the Word 5.1a problem. However, as I don't have any OS9 install disks, I pulled the COI.app out of Chubby's Classic, and "Add"ed it when setting the SS preferences.

Unfortunately, I still get the blinking '?' folder when double clicking the .sheepvm app. I've now opened the COI app and found ".Classic.dmg" in there - 218MB. Should I remove the COI app and Add this .dmg in SS Preferences instead?
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

Yes. That's the only bit of CB you need, other than the ROM.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

Success! I had to rename the file from .Classic.dmg to Classic.dmg as SS Preferences doesn't see invisible files, but once I'd done that, I had 9.0.4 up and running, and also Classilla as a web browser, which isn't really too bad at all.

I reinstalled the abandonware Word 5.1a, and it runs fine. So I may upgrade my regular SS to 9.0.4 as well - is that as simple to do? And will it keep my three drives with all my documents, games and apps on? (On the other hand, I could just as easily port my document folders over to the .vm, then I'd have both 8.6 and 9.0.4 - they both use the same Shared/Unix folder).
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

You can upgrade from 8.6 to 9.0.4 with the 9.0.4 install CD (or CD image); it's a pretty painless process, as you don't even need to reboot prior to running the upgrade. I miss the days of Mac OS overinstalls where you didn't need to boot off separate media to overinstall :)

That said, I started splitting off my images so that my documents and drag&drop install applications go on their own images, that can be used by multiple emulator instances.

I also tend to save documents on the shared drive.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

One further thing - the COI version of 9.0.4 is a very pared down, minimalist system. I still had the System Folder from the 9.2.2 Classic days on my iMac, so I copied over the File Synchronisation, Security and Keychain system extensions and control panels. Now those utilities are available in SS.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

Update:

• I've installed iTunes 2 (which only adds and plays MP3 not AAC - is that right?).

• I tried Multi-Users, and downloaded the necessary software; I copied it to a folder in Unix, then to the
Classic HD. During installation it is asking for a floppy disk 'Install Multiple Users' : that file is in that
folder, but the installer wants it to be inserted - how do I simulate that? The other file looks as though
it's the software itself, 'Multiple Users Tome', but it never gets that far.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Looks like the folder contains the files that should be on the floppy disk. Where did you download the software? In what file format were the downloads?
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

The software was from http://www.gla.ac.uk/~gwm1h/macos9/ which is a whole page full of OS 9 related update software.

The download was a .smi which I opened before copying to the Unix folder.

The installer is Type = APPL, Creator = kajr <- this bit works, I click Accept, and choose where to install.
The 'Install Multiple Users' it then asks for is Type = kajr, Creator = kajr ("Installation Engine")
The 'Multiple Users Tome' is Type = idcp, Creator = kakc
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

TiddK wrote:The download was a .smi which I opened before copying to the Unix folder.
A .smi file is a self mounting image that will mount the floppy diks it contains when double-clicked in a MacOS environment. Do not open it, move it as such to the shared folder / Unix volume and copy it within SheepShaver to the Classic HD. Double clicking will mount the floppy image and you can run the installer.

----------------------

Note that the Classic HD from COI may be to small in size for many additional installations. You can copy its content to a larger volume:

- Tidy up the SheepShaver desktop, put all loose files and folders that you want to keep on the Classic HD
- In the volumes list in SheepShaver preferences, create a larger volume, for instance 1 or 2 GB (1000 or 2000 MB) in size.
- Shut down SheepShaver and start it again.
- Allow the new volume to be initialized. In the dialog, choose an appropriate name for the volume and choose Mac OS Extended for the format.
- Copy all files and folders from the Classic HD volume to the new larger volume
- When the copy is complete, check whether the System Folder on the new volume shows its System Folder icon. If it only shows a generic folder icon, open the folder so the Finder can "see" the "System" and "Finder" files inside. That way the folder will obtain its icon. (This is called "blessing" the System Folder.)
- In the volumes list in preferences, remove the original "Classic.dmg" volume, so SheepShaver can start up from the copied system.
- Shut down SheepShaver and start it again.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

It worked - now I have multiple users in the OS 9 .vm, so that's cool (and it works much like the OS X Users login, which I never saw in Classic before).

I've already created a larger disk when I first set up the .vm - I use the Classic HD for the System Folder and everything the system needs and the freebies which COI provided, and the larger disk I use for everything else including additional apps and all my documents.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

By the way - OS 9 is REALLY buggy compared with OS 8.6; that did surprise me! (Especially using multi-users mode).
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

That's the OS itself; 8.6 has a smaller footprint, is faster, and more stable. 9 is carbon-friendly and as such has some new features that some software requires. 9 is also more stable for some software in SS (Word 5.1 anyone?); not sure what the reason is behind that.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

adespoton wrote:9 is also more stable for some software in SS (Word 5.1 anyone?); not sure what the reason is behind that.
That is true! I did create the 9.0.4 virtualiser in order to run Word 5.1 (which also ran ok in Classic mode as I remember).

I also noticed that the Users login window has the same horizontal pinstripes that were evident everywhere in the first few releases of OS X. In fact, even without the 'window furniture' it looks very OS X. The first hint of what OS X would look like?
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

If you look at the timeline, the dev versions of OS X came with 8.6; 9 was slated to be 8.7, but then they decided to add in the OS X compatibility layer (CarbonLib + MultiUser + iTools + Unix FS support + Classic) and window dressing and release it as 9 instead, to make it easier to differentiate what Classic OS would operate in tandem with OS X. While adding in CarbonLib support, OS 9 also (almost) finished the job of replacing the old 680x0 toolbox calls with PPC versions, meaning that unlike 8.6, which runs 68k routines under emulation, OS 9 runs most code natively on PPC. This last bit probably accounts for some of the software stability differences between the two OSes.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

Yes, I'm sure that's it.

I've noticed that applications launch and generally run ok in OS9 (except that double clicking Sherlock 2 gives a message about needing a later version of system software, while launching it from the Apple menu opens it fine!).

The main problems are :
- sometimes when logged in, the first click makes the windows disappear and the system freezes
- sometimes that happens when trying to open a window
- copying from Unix, or indexing a volume, starts fine, then SS quits

It seems that it could be Finder related? I'm sure I read somewhere that the Finder was rewritten for OS9? I.e. it was Carbonised for PPC where before it was the trusty old Finder it had always been. That would explain the problems I'm getting, and also explain why, by 9.2.2, most of the problems had been sorted out and OS9 ran ok in tandem with OS X.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

I think you've nailed it. The Finder was one of the last bastions of 68k code, and most of those resources were replaced with Carbon ones in OS 9. There were some issues with these through 9.1, although most were fixed between 9.0 and 9.0.4. I do remember the 9.1 finder being WAY more stable than 9.0.4; after that, I didn't really see any increased benefit when booting from 9; all the fixes appeared to be for Classic mode after that.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I think that few people ever used Multi-Users in OS9.

Some Carbon software will run better (or will only run) with the latest version of CarbonLib (version 1.6) installed. If you have an earlier version of CarbonLib in your Extensions folder, install CarbonLib 1.6. It used to be available through Software Update (control panel), but not anymore. Downloads can still be found on various sites.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:I think that few people ever used Multi-Users in OS9.
I must admit I never did, in 4 years of using OS9 (and that was 9.2.2) - I never saw the need. But it was interesting to see how "OS X" the login screen looks.
Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:Some Carbon software will run better (or will only run) with the latest version of CarbonLib (version 1.6) installed. If you have an earlier version of CarbonLib in your Extensions folder, install CarbonLib 1.6. It used to be available through Software Update (control panel), but not anymore. Downloads can still be found on various sites.
I will have look for that. ETA: mine is already v1.6
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

adespoton wrote:I think you've nailed it. The Finder was one of the last bastions of 68k code, and most of those resources were replaced with Carbon ones in OS 9. There were some issues with these through 9.1, although most were fixed between 9.0 and 9.0.4. I do remember the 9.1 finder being WAY more stable than 9.0.4; after that, I didn't really see any increased benefit when booting from 9; all the fixes appeared to be for Classic mode after that.
That may still be true? I did hear that Finder was still PPC (Carbon) long after most other Apple apps had become Cocoa. They may have got Finder up to date by now, but I know the 10.6 Finder - and maybe 10.7? - was still Carbon.

ETA: My mistake. Finder became Cocoa with 10.6, but I shouldn't be maligning Carbon anyway - apparently it is great with OSX but was a 'compromise' with OS9.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

Carbon has been officially deprecated since 10.6. It still works, but the writing's on the wall. That's why Paul worked so hard on porting Mini vMac to Cocoa.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

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adespoton wrote:Carbon has been officially deprecated since 10.6. It still works, but the writing's on the wall. That's why Paul worked so hard on porting Mini vMac to Cocoa.
Yes - officially. But apparently Apple insiders say Carbon is the equal of Cocoa in OS X (or was, until everything had to be 64-bit). Now of course it's had its day, but Carbon apps are still very good at what they do, where they do it.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Still, deprecated means: will not be supported in future OS. Expect carbon applications to stop working in a future OSX version, could be as soon as 10.12. You never know, Apple will not tell so in advance.
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TiddK
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

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Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:Still, deprecated means: will not be supported in future OS. Expect carbon applications to stop working in a future OSX version, could be as soon as 10.12. You never know, Apple will not tell so in advance.
Well, I'm all set up! I have a copy of Mavericks to install, plus Parallels and Snow Leopard Server on DVD. But only when I need to finally abandon Snow Leopard (which Apple still supports, via Safari 5, for its own website videos :smile: ).
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by adespoton »

TiddK wrote:
Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:Still, deprecated means: will not be supported in future OS. Expect carbon applications to stop working in a future OSX version, could be as soon as 10.12. You never know, Apple will not tell so in advance.
Well, I'm all set up! I have a copy of Mavericks to install, plus Parallels and Snow Leopard Server on DVD. But only when I need to finally abandon Snow Leopard (which Apple still supports, via Safari 5, for its own website videos :smile: ).
As has been stated elsewhere: Snow Leopard is now way out of the support window. While it still runs, it has been a number of years since security issues have been patched on it, and there are well documented vulnerabilities in it being exploited by malicious software. A few of them have seen third party patches by the SLS community, but I haven't even seen that in a few years now.

For instance, the HeartBleed issue is not patched on SLS. So don't use it for anything production-facing, and lock it down tight even for hobby use.
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Re: Create SS .vm using Chubby Bunny

Post by TiddK »

adespoton wrote:
TiddK wrote:
Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:Still, deprecated means: will not be supported in future OS. Expect carbon applications to stop working in a future OSX version, could be as soon as 10.12. You never know, Apple will not tell so in advance.
Well, I'm all set up! I have a copy of Mavericks to install, plus Parallels and Snow Leopard Server on DVD. But only when I need to finally abandon Snow Leopard (which Apple still supports, via Safari 5, for its own website videos :smile: ).
As has been stated elsewhere: Snow Leopard is now way out of the support window. While it still runs, it has been a number of years since security issues have been patched on it, and there are well documented vulnerabilities in it being exploited by malicious software. A few of them have seen third party patches by the SLS community, but I haven't even seen that in a few years now.

For instance, the HeartBleed issue is not patched on SLS. So don't use it for anything production-facing, and lock it down tight even for hobby use.
I don't run any browser with Java. I'm surprised there are exploits though, as the SL community is shrinking fast. I tend to still use it as it is the last OS pre-iOSX. I don't really need Rosetta now, especially with SheepShaver running, but I won't use any version of iTunes after iTunes 10. Mavericks comes with 11, so I'd have to run it in Parallels with SLS. 10.6 does everything I want it for, except run a decent version of Safari, and for me, that's not enough to upgrade ... yet.
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