Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

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Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Hello,
i just wont to play Vampire Masquerade game on real Mac with 10.4.11 and Installed Classic OS 9.2. When i try to run game, there is some OpenGL related error, with game is some OpenGL installer, but i dont know how to use it with classicOS, where copy the files?

I have find some related topic, but i dont fully understand, where to copy the files:
https://www.opengl.org/discussion_board ... acOS-9-2-1

I dont even understand, how 3D acceleration working, in Mac world, i have Geforce 5200FX card from Nvidia which support OpenGL etc, but when i run Diablo II graphics selection utility, only software rendering is support. Do i need some Nvidia driver or something like that?
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by adespoton »

The OpenGL extensions need to be dragged over the System Folder icon. This should copy them into the correct places. Then reboot, and they should load.

However, I'm not sure about OpenGl in 9.2.2 in Classic; I think you may need to actually boot into 9.2 to get hardware acceleration to work. Unfortunately, you can't do that on a G5.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Which format that extension should have? I have just some intaller *.smi, it was just 2 installer files and tome file, which i not associate with any program.. Maybe extension could be somehow extracted from it.

There is that installer:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpk2e3eh40aiy ... 1.smi?dl=1

Otherwise how i check which version of Classic MacOS i have installed during boot i see 9.2, but i dunno if it is 9.2.1 , 9.2.2?
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by adespoton »

Check the Classic preference pane for the OS version.

SMI extensions are self-mounting images. You can rename to .dmg, or just attempt to mount them as-is with Disk Utility.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Thanks.
1) Classic Mac OS version - thanks, i was a bit hidden in Memory tab and you have to run it before. My version is 9.2.2

2) OpenGL installation problem is not mounting, problem is what next.. There are 2 installers refusing to install because of OS version > 9.1 and some tome file, i would need somehow extract that extensions to bypass installers, or gat it somewhere.. Or maybe someone can install it on 9.1 and share extension..
I trying to run Vampire Masquerade game and getting this error message:
Image

I was googling, but found this for other game is its not clear to me, how exactly to do it:
https://macosx.com/threads/how-do-you-g ... 2-2.20323/

3) If i would like to downgrade classic Mac OS 9.2.2 to 9.1, how to do it?

4) Its somewhere some list of games which are running fine about Mac OS 10.x , classic OS 9 mode?
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by adespoton »

Your best bet is to use TomeViewer (you can find it on MacintoshGarden) to extract the extensions from the tome file. Downgrading to 9.1 is as simple as installing 9.1 or copying a universal install to the disk -- you can even have multiple versions available and choose which one to boot. But older versions will not boot on newer versions of OS X.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Thanks, im one step further, i extracted Tome archive but there are 20 files and i dunno which files copy where and which files i need to use and which dont.

File types:
1) shlb
2) ndrv
3)init

Where some QuickDrwa 3D files.. So files are ATI, i have Nvidia card, i dunno is ATI emulated for Classic OS or not, so i have to copy them too.

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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Ok, i copied all Opengl files to System\Extension of classic.

After than i have to install old Java 2.2.6 in wasnt on install CD.

But now i stuck on insert Play disc, i have *.toast image of it and Toast 6.. and its not working, i probably need some better virtual cd emulation software.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by adespoton »

Use Toast 5; it'll mount where later versions won't. Or use the Virtual CD Emulator mentioned/linked elsewhere in these forums. Or, set it up in SheepShaver or QEMU-PPC and then copy the files over.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Problem was that files needed locking better mounting, so im step furter..

Game is now starting, but when i select Single player or Multiplayer from menu.. i get game close or hard freeze. Probably something with graphics, codecs etc.. but who nows, no any error message.. Are there some system logs to check or some ways how to debug it?

I tried it in Qemu years ago, but i wasnt abe to get around OpenGL, 3D acceleration afaik is not working with Qemu.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by adespoton »

ruthan wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:35 am Problem was that files needed locking better mounting, so im step furter..

Game is now starting, but when i select Single player or Multiplayer from menu.. i get game close or hard freeze. Probably something with graphics, codecs etc.. but who nows, no any error message.. Are there some system logs to check or some ways how to debug it?

I tried it in Qemu years ago, but i wasnt abe to get around OpenGL, 3D acceleration afaik is not working with Qemu.
3D acceleration doesn't work with SheepShaver; there's rudimentary support in QEMU-PPC now. Not enough to actually DO hardware acceleration, but enough to fool some old apps that won't run unless it exists.

The SheepShaver application itself has hardware acceleration, but not software that runs inside it.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

adespoton wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:44 pm3D acceleration doesn't work with SheepShaver; there's rudimentary support in QEMU-PPC now.
This topic is not about emulation, it is about running a game in Mac OS 9.2* on a real G5 Mac with Mac OS X 10.4.11 and Mac OS 9.2 installed.

The original question was about how to install the OpenGL files that came with the game.

The OP mentions an OpenGL "installer". Is that indeed an actual installer application or just the files to be installed in the System Folder? Files that need to be installed in the System Folder can be dragged onto the System Folder and the System will automatically install the files in the right place. Of course one should not install older files if a newer version is already installed.

* I suppose the game is used in the "Classic Environment". As far as I aware no G5 can boot Mac OS 9.

Edit: Is Mac OS 9.2 installed, not Mac OS 9.2.2?
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

9.2.2 Is installed, yeah is not emulation, yeah im using "Classic Environment".

OpenGL installer is on game CD, without OpenGL installed, game does not start at all.

I copied files to ClassicOS System\Extension folder, it fixed game start.. So that is wrong and i have to drag them to Classic OS System\ ?

On Windows, Linux you can usually find some error logs or error message box, when something is not working. Does MacOS really lacks such info?

BTW i never know too much about Rave3D but it seems that is some graphical API, similar to OpenGL, Direct3D, Gide, Metal,Vulkan.. but dont understand how Rave3D working together with OpenGL. In installer are both files some for OpenGL some for Rave3D.

Other question is in installer are ATI cards files, but i have Mac with Nvidia card, how it works? Its for classic OS, some old ATI card emulated even when there is used physical Nvidia card without any emulation?
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

ruthan wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:02 pm I copied files to ClassicOS System\Extension folder, it fixed game start.. So that is wrong and i have to drag them to Classic OS System\ ?
If the files are system extensions, and I think they are, they are correctly installed in the Extensions folder in the System Folder. It is just easier to drag such files onto the System Folder. The System decides what kind of files they are and will install them in the correct subfolder.

I have no answer to the other questions.
It could be that the game will not run in the "Classic Environment". See the comments here on Macintosh Garden: http://macintoshgarden.org/games/vampir ... redemption
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

There is file list with type column in screenshot above.. i suppose that someone with more Mac knowledge will know which files they are if it they are extensions or something else, or mix of both.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The screenshot did not show in your post. I edited the post to make it visible for anyone here.

Judging by the names, most are probably system extensions. File types are normally not shown in the Finder. "INIT" files are extensions, most other files are probably libraries that I suppose should also be in the extensions folder. The advantage of dropping the files on the System Folder is that you do not need to know where they should be installed. The system will decide.

The "OpenGL Read Me" file is not an extension. It is a SimpleText file that may contain instructions.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Thanks.

Otherwise i read post of others problem shouldnt be my machine setting.. but everybody is using 9.2.2, its not working even on G3/G4.. not only G5.

So it would have to make sense to test it on 9.1 or 9.0, but i dunno how to do it.
On my G5 its possible to install multiple Classic OS, i can select in System settings which to use, but i dunno how to install System 9.1, i tried jus to copy System from install cd, but got error that this version of system is only for boot CD. I installed 9.2 very long time to ago, so i forgot how to do it.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Well, installing MacOS is done by running the installer on the install CD.

I doubt that it is possible to install multiple MacOS 9.x installations on the same HD. You will need a separate partition on the HD or an external disk to install the other MacOS 9 system onto.

And you will need to choose the newly installed system for the Classic Environment.
Note that MacOS 9.0.x cannot be used for the Classic Environment, you need MacOS 9.1 or later.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Classic MacOS has some special rules.. Multiple version can run from same partition even with modern OS - Mac 10.4.11. There is just few systems folders with different names.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Ah, I see, the system folders have different names. I do not remember that, it has been a long time since I used the Classic Environment.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

.There is some info:
https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/tut ... tallation/
http://etutorials.org/Mac+OS/using+mac+ ... vironment/
http://etutorials.org/Mac+OS/using+mac+ ... lications/
But it probable that you can find something better.

I personally have problem to find and identify right Mac 9.1 install disc, or im doing something wrong during process because im getting that System only for bootCD error.
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The download from this Macintosh Garden page should work: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macinto ... -doors-mdd
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Thanks.

I downloaded:
Download (Mac_OS_9.1.0.toast_.zip (430.01 MB)) - but problem is still the same.

When i copy system folder and boot it, im geting that message that its only from boot cd, here is photo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/acz76z3y2d7hn ... n.JPG?dl=1
Image

And i cant install it because when i run installer Classic OS is executed and i cant downgrade 9.2.2 to 9.1. I tried somehow to remove / hide 9.2.2 System folder, ,but im getting that its used by system.. and when i copy it and select other folder as Classic OS folder, i can removed it.. but new folder couldnt be removed - its vicious circle.

I see to possible workarounds:
1) Download somewhere System folder from 9.1 installed on emulated OS, or some real HW, if someone can share it, on CD its 50 MB or so, so it shouldnt be big to share it somewhere..
2) If im not wrong my install was originally without Classic OS, so if it could be installed it could be somehow removed - in theory.
After what maybe installer would be able to install it.. or i will get error that installer is for classic OS only and that install is not possible to run at all. We will see, i guess that is worth to try.. but i would need knowledge how to remove it..
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The problem is that the installer will use the existing MacOS 9.2.2 to run. When you remove 9.2.2, the installer will not run and you cannot remove 9.2.2 while it is active. And on this Mac G5 you cannot startup from MacOS.

Did you try to choose the startup System Folder on the CD for the classic environment, I mean not copy that folder but choose it while on the mounted CD and after a restart install MacOS 9.1? (The MacOS that is used for the classic environment does nor necessarily be on the same disk as the MacOSX.)

Maybe copying an installed MacOS 9.1 System Folder will work. I cannot help you with that, unless I try to set up QEMU and install it there.

Edit: If you want to show an image here, you need to use the address of the image itslef, not a link to dropbox. I edited the above post to make the JPG visible. The actual address of that image is:

Code: Select all

https://uc1b548c1e28f3a70fdd21750af6.previews.dropboxusercontent.com/p/thumb/ABR-FF6XaHf7nUYn1MDpXe2xRgT99u-i0r34WN17GZRVEokcBPFAhcnPfrUB9TU13JBfSW-4lBb0jXzkKZAT2uSX4LKfhy4ZUgQ02XirvxXbS7HDGBT5WlM1vp44EvPrgAhrgrUBiOP4BpTG5YXZQtJnffDtqSEytqeMHgDJm1be_4RakZkQ1Qk6vypjXr7yh5pSOflEay7lPZb30aRpd-uRgqsW5ovK8VUJyOm14qYG92Q7yg8Kvq-fDctclyIbx-X_S0YoXAgDH_kfbLHKsMFggFyxQuHFvU6_5eEFJgw8M7XXTswsv-l35vFx45EA9JK4ApAEeU5gSEH9QhZGozXseVuaQLw290YPnBH-VA8TzS-ietzy30FA3yGuc3COMlBf1c-Qkff2RRSAt7w0tzfQ/p.jpeg?fv_content=true&size_mode=5
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Re: Real G5, Classic OS 9.2 install OpenGL files.

Post by ruthan »

Well, good idea i will try to force Classic OS use CD as booting volume, but i a bit suspect, that problem would in target volume that it will not see target disk.. and maybe it will try to install it on cd, but we will see.

In theory i can also try to remove Classic OS from Linux which im have installed in same machine, or Linux boot CD.. if i would be able mount HFS partition for writing operations.. and im a bit affraid if MacOS will after that boot at all.

Dropbox links - these addresses are public, they are working with other webs, when i inserted them into them, maybe there is some http redirec from its original address and this forum engine couldnt handle it.
Dropbox links are just made by location file on local disk, right click and Copy Dropbox link, i dont know other way.
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