Picking up where I left off...(I think)

[Rhetro]

I couldn't find my old posts from the before the blackout for some reason.

I'll try and get up to speed from what I remember:

I had been trying to make copies of some old 3.5 floppies of a game called Uninvited. I had downloaded the file from a freeware site called Macintosh Garden, however the file was incomplete and I couldn't find it anywhere else, so I decided that the best way to do this would be to copy the files off my actual 3.5 disk, and run them on my Mini vMac emulator. I'll try to be concise (I'm not good at this).

This is what I did to ruin my day :

I have some old Macs (a Mac SE, a Mac Classic, and a Mac Plus). The only one that is reliable at this point is the Mac Classic with it's Superdrive.

The idea, was to download some disk copy apps for 6.0.8, which is the OS that I have on my Mac Classic, transfer those disk copy apps from my PC to the Mac Classic, and use those disk copy apps on the Mac classic to copy these two original 3.5 floppy disks of the game Uninvited.

OK, I downloaded several of these 6.0.8 disk copy utilities onto a blank floppy from my pc using HFVexplorer, and installed them onto my Mac Classic.

Ran the disk copy utitilities on the Mac Classic, and when I inserted to copy the 3.5 disks, I managed to COMPLETELY ERASE the info of disk one of uninvited! -total idiot.

I had been receiving very kind help along the way, and jumped the gun and got ahead of everyone that was helping out. These are hard disks to find, and the only way to find them would be on e-bay. I was waiting for the disks to pop up on e-bay when the site went down..

This is what has happened since:

I actually found the complete file of the Uninvited game from another freeware site and the game now works as it should on mini vMac! So the goal is accomplished!!!

However, I have destroyed my original disk and my goal is to now replace the information on it, lock it up and put it away, never to mess with it again.

Well, mysteriously enough, I found some working backup floppies of those very disks lying around. I didn't remember that I had them and don't remember where they even came from??? But they work!!! What I want to do now is take the info from disk 1 of the copy, and copy it onto the the original disk 1 (that is now a blank disk thanks to my mistake). So my original authentic disks are back intact.

I believe that my next step was to replace 6.0.8 on my mac Classic with 7.5.5 to take full use of some of the Better disk copy utilities that support 7.5.5. and get around some of the disk copy protection that I was running into. Since I have backup floppies they may have gotten around that copy protection for me (again, for the life of me I don't know where these backups came from -but I'm sure glad I had them!!!).

So. I'm trying to download OS 7.5.5 to put on my Mac Classic. Is this where I start?

I hope that I have explained myself thoroughly.

Yes. I promise I will TAKE MY TIME AND GO STEP BY STEP as I have learned a valuable and expensive lesson :|

Thanks in advance.

rhetro

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Hi again

I have no time to react now, but I will be back later this week.

Ronald.

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald!!

Good to hear from you!

I will be PATIENTLY wating.

Take care.

rhetro

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Hi,

Well, congratulations for finding both a complete Uninvited file and copies of the disks!

We will go step by step and we will take small steps, that is better for you.

First, try to remember. Do you really not know where the copies came from? Is it possible that you made them yourself years ago? If you made them yourself, you apparently managed to bypass the copy protection and you probably did that in System 6.0.8. Did you ever use a (real) Mac after these oldies with System 6.0.8?

Secondly, you need to refresh my memory.

1. Were the Uninvited disks 400k floppies or 800k floppies or 1.44Mb floppies?

2. Are the copies the same format?

3. How much memory does your Mac Classic have installed?


Ronald.

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald!

Yes definately a fortuitous event on both fronts!!

I believe that the copies came with the original disks.

I bought them off a friend years ago when the game was released. He included the copies with the originals for the sake of PRESERVING the originals. This is what I believe anyway, as the writing on the copies is not my own and I would have remembered backing up the originals.

You wrote:
Did you ever use a (real) Mac after these oldies with System 6.0.8?

No. I believe I only used them on my Mac Plus as that was the only computer I had (if I followed your question correctly.

As far as the copies being 400k, 800k, or 1.4M. I don't know and will find out for you. I will look at the original disks as well as the copies and see what they are to check if they are the same or different formats.

I will also find out how much memory my classic mac has.

SO:

1) compare and verify the formats of the original disks and the copies
2) find out how much memory the classic mac has.

I'm on it!

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Whatever you do with the disks, never ever remove the write protection again!

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald.

This is what I found out:

The original Uninvited disks are both on single sided 400k diskets.

The copies are both on double sided 400k disketts (there is even a marking on them in pencil that reads :400k)

as far as the Mac Classic:

The finder reads: 3,763k
system: 333k system 6.0.8

Hope this helps!

sorry it took a while. And yes: I will NEVER REMOVE THE WRITE PROTECTION AGAIN!

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

OK. Let's hope that the copies are indeed actual disk copies and thus will mount as 400k diskettes (although the disks' hardware is 800k able). If they mount as 800k diskettes, it is not possible to make a true disk copy to the original Uninvited disk, even if the content will fit on a 400k diskette.

The Mac Classic has the maximum RAM memory of 4 MB.

The Mac Classic can be used with (a stripped down version of) System 7.5.5, but for the software I have in mind System 7.0.1 will do. System 7.0.1 needs less memory and is a better match for the Mac Classic.

Now, how do we install System 7.0.1 on the Classic. The installation diskettes are available online as 1.4 MB Disk Copy 4.2 disk images, but you will need real diskettes. It is easy to make diskette copies from the disk images, but you need a Mac with SuperDrive floppy drive (you have the Classic), you need to get the disk images intact (with resource fork etc.) on that Mac's hard disk (we will discuss that later), and you need software that can make a disk copy between the images and real diskettes.

Now, to start with the needed software, Disk Copy 4.2 should be useable under System 6.0.8. Do you have Disk Copy 4.2 installed on the Classic?

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald.

I checked and I only have Disk Copy. It didn't have a version (I'm assuming it's the first version). When I ran it, it said that it needed system 7.0.1 or later. So to answer your question:

No. It doesn't look like I have Disk Copy 4.2

In case your're curious, the other copy apps that I have installed on the Mac Classic are:

1 side copier 2.0
Mass copier 1.2
Disk Dup+
PD copy 3.0
Fast Disk Copy 4.5
Super Copy 1.1 (I believe this is the one that I used that got me in hot water in the first place!)

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I checked and I only have Disk Copy. It didn't have a version (I'm assuming it's the first version).

Apparently you did not check the version number in Finder Info:
Select the application icon in the Finder, then choose "Get Info" from the File menu. You will see info about the file, including the version number.

[Rhetro]

Ah yes. How very silly of me.

It is Disk Copy version 6.1.3

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

That will not work. Trash it, so the system does not get confused when you will have Disk Copy 4.2 installed. I will be back later.

[Rhetro]

You got it!

I'll trash it!

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I haven't forgotten you , but I need to figure out a way to get you the 7.0.1 installation disks, or how to get the image files onto your Classic. Once the image files are on your Classic, you can easily create the installation disks from them. But the files are themselves the very size of the disk and thus do not fit on a disk as such. Mounting/opening the image files and copying the files onto a disk will not produce proper installation disks.
In fact, one would need a Mac with built-in floppy drive (SuperDrive) and either internet connection or CD-ROM drive connected. I will consult a friend with more experience with old Macs than I have.
Be patient, I will be back later.

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald.

I appreciate it. I guess my old method of copying the files onto floppies won't work for a proper installation (as you just mentioned). I formatted about 12 floppy disks for the process of transferring the files when you're ready to proceed.

I'll patiently wait and WON'T touch a thing

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I think there is a way to expand and join in 6.0.8 segmented Zip files that were created on a PC. I will test this first and you can provide the material for testing.

Download this file: System_7.0.1.smi.bin

Do not decode or decompress the file (and do not let your browser do it automatically), save it as "System_7.0.1.smi.bin", it will be about 5MB in size.

I do not know which Zip utility you use, but it must be able to create Zip segments (split Zip files), the created files must be compatible with older (un)zip utilities and the files must not be encrypted or self-extracting.
I suppose WinZip can do this, but apparently it is a little pricey. Anyway, you know better the possibilities on the Windows side.

Zip and split the downloaded file into segments not larger than 1MB.

Save these files, if I succeed in making this work, you will need them later.

Send the Zip files as attachments to my email address (see private message).

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald!

I went ahead and saved the file. I use winzip but must admit I have never split files before. It didn't seem like that big a deal.

However, after saving it as a zip file, when I split file, it got split into three separate files that were NOT zip files. I take it that this is normal.

Another thing, each file is about 1.15 mb. and it wasn't saved as a bin file. Windows doesn't know what it is.

Should I send them to you anyway to try it out?

Thanks!

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I went ahead and saved the file. I use winzip but must admit I have never split files before. It didn't seem like that big a deal.

However, after saving it as a zip file, when I split file, it got split into three separate files that were NOT zip files. I take it that this is normal.

I have never seen zip segments, so I do not know how they will appear. I thought the splitting was done during archiving, archiving into segments instead of archiving into one single zip file. If you decompress the segments, that should bring back the original "System_7.0.1.smi.bin" file.

Another thing, each file is about 1.15 mb. and it wasn't saved as a bin file. Windows doesn't know what it is.

I do not understand what you mean. Of course the segments are not saved as bin files, that is the original file that is supposed to be archived inside the segments. Yes, Windows does not know bin files, that is a Macintosh encoded file format (MacBinary) that is designed to carry Mac files across other file systems. These files should never be decoded outside HFS file system, that would destroy the files inside.

Should I send them to you anyway to try it out?

Send them, so I can see if these are any good.

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald.

Makes sense. Well I can do is try, right?

I sent them to you so you should have them.

talk to you later and thanks for all the help

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I sent them to you so you should have them.

"sent" is past tense, isn't it? Well, I did not receive your email (yet).

[Rhetro]

Hey Ronald.

Yes I sent them. But the first time I sent all three of them in one e-mail. Perhaps that is why you didn't get them. Perhaps the file was too big.

I sent them to you again just now in three different e-mails. Maybe that will work.

talk to you soon.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I found all four emails in my spam mailbox. Not sure why they were labeled as spam.

[Rhetro]

Great.

I'm glad that you received them. Hopefully they will work.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

They don't. I am now investigating a different solution. Stay tuned.

[Rhetro]

Thanks for the effort!