Some Nuts and Bolts

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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okorshin
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Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by okorshin »

OK, I have been playing around with SheepShaver for a week, and decided to start using it instead of my legacy machine to do some actual work, namely, to use it for my patient accounting application, which cannot run in OSX, and would cost $7,500 to upgrade to the OSX version, not to mention the costs of staff training and the inevitable slowdown consequent on adopting new software, as the OSX version is utterly different. (The pre-OSX version dates back to 1992, so you can imagine how primitive it is, though it meets all our rather simple needs, primitive or not.)

Within SheepShaver, the application behaves as normal. However, when I copy the modified data files into the Unix volume, so I can get it onto my OSX side for transmission, the moment the copy is done (approximately 125MB), SheepShaver suddenly quits. The files show up in the shared folder, however, apparently unaffected.

The other oddity is that the file/folder modification date/time stamp of the data files I place in the Unix volume is NOTthe date/time when I close the application in SheepShaver. but the date/time that I drag it into the Unix volume.

This poses a problem, since I keep multiple copies of these data files, and need to be able to recognize them by their actual modification date/time, not by the date/time that these files were dragged into the Unix volume.

Any workaround here?

Oliver
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Cat_7
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Post by Cat_7 »

Hi,

You can create a new hfs+ .dmg in OSX and add that to the volumes list in SheepShaver (and initialize it using mac os extended format).
In SheepShaver you put your data on that volume. A hfs+ volume can also be opened by Mac OSX and you can then do with the data file what you need to do.

The only thing you HAVE to make sure of is that you never open the volume in OSX while SheepShaver is running. And the other way around: unmount the volume in OSX before you start SheepShaver. (It might be possible to write a small script that will always unmount a specific volume mounted in OSX before starting SheepShaver).

Will that do?

Best,
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okorshin
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Post by okorshin »

Hi,

You can create a new hfs+ .dmg in OSX and add that to the volumes list in SheepShaver (and initialize it using mac os extended format).
In SheepShaver you put your data on that volume. A hfs+ volume can also be opened by Mac OSX and you can then do with the data file what you need to do.

The only thing you HAVE to make sure of is that you never open the volume in OSX while SheepShaver is running. And the other way around: unmount the volume in OSX before you start SheepShaver. (It might be possible to write a small script that will always unmount a specific volume mounted in OSX before starting SheepShaver).

Will that do?

Thanks much for the comeback.

A few questions....

1. How does one create a new hfs+ .dmg fle in OSX? I have never done that.

2. Can I assume that SheepShaver can recognize (and mount) the hfs+ .dmg even though it is not mounted on the OSX size?

3. If, then, I put my OS9 data into this new volume, will the modification date/time remain the date/time I last modified it in OS9, or will it change to the date/time I drag it into the new volume, which is precisely the problem with dragging files to the Unix volume?

4. What will happen if I mount (or open) the hfs+ .dmg volume on the OSX side while SheepShaver is running, or if I open SheepShaver while the hfs+ volume is mounted on the OSX side?

Thanks in advance!

Oliver
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24bit
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Post by 24bit »

Well, as far as I know...

1. DiskUtility, new image

2. Yes, if the image is uncompressed

3. Modification time will be updated by the OS handling the image

4. "Object in use" error or crash. Volumes must not be mounted with SS and the host at the same time.

Best wishes!
okorshin
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Post by okorshin »

Thanks for the prompt reply!

However, what you said puts me back to square one, as moving files modified in OS9 into the Unix volume also updates the date-time to the moment the files (or folders) are dragged over. I need to be able to identify the files/folders by their "real" modify date

I have a series of folders, one for each work day, which include 14 files in each folder -- it's a relational database with multiple data files in each day's folder.The only way I can distinguish them is by the true modify date/time -- so if they are reassigned a "new" modify date/time after they have been closed in OS9 and dragged into the Unix volume, I can no longer distinguish them easily.

Say, I work on the 7/13/2011 folder, drag it into the Unix volume, then work on the 7/12/2011 folder and drag it into the Unix volume, then 7/12 folder will acquire a later date/time than the 7/13 folder.

Oliver
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

More detailed:

1. Disk Utility > New Image
Make sure you choose format Mac OS Extended, Encryption None, read/write image.

2. Yes, just like the image you created in SheepShaver preferences. Of course you need to add the newly created image file to the volumes list in SheepShaver preferences. (Then quit and launch again SheepShaver for the change in preferences to be used by SheepShaver.)

3. Just copying files to the mounted disk image will not change their creation and modification dates (that problem is specific to the Unix disk)

4. If you mount and use the image in both host and guest system at the same time you risk file system corruption on that volume.
okorshin
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Post by okorshin »

Super!

I will follow your instructions and let you know the outcome.

Thanks again.

Oliver
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Post by macdro »

I think one warning is that you may see different 'invisible' files in the volume when you open it either in OS X or the OS on SS? (I know this happens with physical removable drives between OS X and OS 9 machines; this may or may not occur in this context)

Anyway, it's as simple as ignoring them and just working with the files and folders related to your work.
okorshin
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Post by okorshin »

Superb!

Works fine, & maintains the "real" modify date/time.

Thanks again.

Oliver

P.S.: BTW, locating and saving the new volume in SheepShaver again corrupted the Unix/Shared File path, so, until I "relocated" the OSX shared file, I got the message that "Unix could not be found." This was on my MacPro, OS10.6.8.
dryer
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by dryer »

I have a problem that is a just part of the problem described on this thread. Namely, whenever I copy files (or folders) from my Sheepshaver drive to the shared folder, it changes the date modified to the time and date when I do the copy. What can I do to make sure the date modified remains the same? (I am running Mac OS 7.5.3 on Sheepshaver 2.3.20101106 on Mac 10.6.8.)
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The solution is essentially the same as described above. Do not use the 'Unix' disk/shared folder, but instead use an intermediate disk image that can be mounted alternately in SheepShaver and in OSX (never at the same time!). Only in your case it is a little more complex because MacOS 7.5.3 does not read HFS+ volumes and OSX 10.6 does not write HFS volumes.

- In SheepShaver preferences, create a new volume (disk image file) of sufficient size. Give the file a .dmg extension (not the suggested .dsk extension)
- Quit/shut down SheepShaver and launch it again
- At startup a dialog will ask you to name the volume and to initialize it. Do so. The new (HFS) volume will appear on the 7.5.3 desktop
- You can copy files to that new volume.
- Quit/shut down SheepShaver
- In OSX double click the disk image. It will be mounted read-only. You can copy the files from that volume.
- Unmount the volume before you launch again SheepShaver
- In 7.5.3 you can delete the files or erase the volume to be ready for further use.
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Re: More Nuts and Bolts - "ignore illegal memory access"

Post by jim_witte »

I just set up my SS system again (icons started disappearing off one of the images in OS9 - I figured it was time to make a new image). I found that unless "ignore illegal memory accesses" is turned on (so that it does ignore them), the system won't boot (OS 9.0) if the memory size is set higher than something around 32MB. It might work differently with 9.0.4 or 9.1 though.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Indeed, our setup guide instructions are to always enable "Ignore Illegal Memory Accesses".
dryer
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by dryer »

I have followed these instructions (Ronald’s Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:30 am post) a number of times successfully, but I today was the first time I tried to do it on a new laptop running under OS 10.8.3 and it didn’t work. I can create the disk image and it mounts (or appears to mount) under OS, but when I try to copy files from it to my hard drive, I get the following error message:

“The operation can’t be completed because one or more required items can’t be found. (Error code -43)"

I am running 7.5.3. under Sheepshaver.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

There is a bug in OSX 10.8 reading HFS volumes. It seems to be solved in 10.8.4. Update OSX and see if your problem still exists.
Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dryer
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by dryer »

For years, I have used the advice given to me ten years ago (Re: Some Nuts and Bolts Post by Ronald P. Regensburg » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:30 pm) for making a backup of files in my Sheepshaver drive. But today when I have tried, it seems that it doesn't work. I don't know whether something has changed or what the problem is. I am using the latest Sheepshaver build, using Mac OS 7.5.3, on a Mac, OS 12.0.1.

When I follow the instructions, creating a disk image with extension .dmg, the disk image does show up on my current Mac (i.e. OS 12), but when I click on it, it says that is it not readable. Significantly, when I reopen Sheepshaver, the disk image I created does show up on the list of volumes but does not show up on the desktop (which it did, in the past).

I did find a work-around, by copying the Sheepshaver folder to an older Mac running under OS 10.12 (Sierra), where the above problem did not arise, and was able to copy the contents of the disk image into a folder that I was able to move to my primary Mac. But I would like to know if there is something different I need to do to create these disk images on OS 12. If the answer is somewhere in the Forum, I was unable to find it.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Some Nuts and Bolts

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

It still works here in macOS 12.2, but the procedure in SheepShaver preferences may have changed. Does the image really show up in the Volumes list and not on the SheepShaver desktop? That is strange.

1. Changing the extension from .img to .dmg does no harm, but it is not needed anymore as HFS images cannot be read in macOS 10.15 and later anyway. (If you want files from SheepShaver saved on the host, use the Unix/shared folder feature.)

2. In SheepShaver preferences, after using "Create" and "Save", you need to click "Save and Quit" and then Quit SheepShaver. At next launch of SheepShaver, you will be asked to initialize the newly created disk.

3. A much easier way to keep backups of everything in SheepShaver is to make copies of your virtual HD and/or other disk images used with SheepShaver. In fact, if you make regular backups of your host (Time Machine?), you will find previous versions of these disk images in your backups.
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